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Hi! this is a discussion about the role of the bass in rock music and possibilities for innovative use. For some odd reason, the sound of the bass is always subdued and the bass play itself is nothing much to talk about in rock music except a few bands like RHCP. When i compare this with a band of old like Blind Faith (Clapton, winwood, grech), I find it weird. Any opinions on why i cannot hear the bass when i hear Nickelback, Hoobastank or Vertical Horizon? Seems like the bass is almost redundant . .

I am right there with you. I think Flea is the hottest bass player of his generation. He is one of the few that could give Jack Bruce a run for his money.
I also think Paul McCartney is probably the most underated / overlooked bassest in rock. Let us not forget Getty Lee or the bass player from Yes.
Fragile is still amoung my top 10 favorite (yeah)LP's.

If you want bass, perhaps you should listen to some jazz or funk music. Or even soul or house music.

Jaco Pastorious (jazz)
Bootsy Collins (funk)
Miguel Migs (house)

Lemmy Kilmister :-)

From a Rockn Roll band named Motorhead :-)

I think he had an own Bass sound and it is not in the backround.The bass stands in the middle so like the guitar :-)
Take a listen :-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImrtZRrS70w

Response to Ryan Ragolski:
Hi Ryan,
I saw your post and agree fully about finding good bass. I have very recently started to listen to alot more smooth jazz. I am 51 and have always been a fan of soul and motown. I think one of the reasons for the new intrest is because like Nikhil Goyal says the bass in rock is becoming rather lack luster.
Maybe the producers don't want the bass to get in the way or overshadow the vocals. Or it could be that the songs are over prossesed and the bass is lost in the mix.
I am hoping to get my computer running a bit smoother or replace it so that I may introduce some of my musical ideas to the indaba community. One idea is to run the bass through a stereo flanger on a ballad , possibly use a echo effect as well.
I have found some intresting songs here but unfortunetly I do not have the hardware to produce an audition file.
I hope to be jammin' soon

It was probably John Entwistle of The Who that first brought recognition to the bass guitar in pop/rock, elevating it to the same level of importance as other instruments in the band. However, it is probably significant that he insisted on being referred to as an "electric bass guitarist" rather than a "bassist".

I think it has a lot to do with how the Dynamic range of music these days has the @#$% compressed out of it. Even good bass lines seem to be buried in the mix and you need a keen ear to hear it. This is compounded by most people listening to degraded MP3s on crappy earbuds. The bass just gets lost.

Paul N. posted on Wed Mar 05 19:59:36 -0600 2008 ...
I also think Paul McCartney is probably the most underated / overlooked bassest in rock. ...

Paul McCartney's bass play probably has received less respect than his song writing ability. He listened to JS Bach and Motown's James Jamerson and like him, Paul knew the role of the bass. The bass is typically not out front, because it is BASS. It is not the easiest thing in the mix to hear.
But McCartney wove counter melodies between the root notes. His early work was more standard, Root-fifth stuff, but by the end he had brought the bass more to the front of the mix. He brought the bass out of the background and and made it musically integral.
Bass is rhythm.
Bass is tonal structure.
And thanks to Paul, (and JS Bach) bass is counter melody.

Our task is to live up to those standards, and it starts with understanding music in general, and the song in particular. Throw in a little Soul, and you've got it.

I think bassists that seek to do something other than "rythmic, tonal structure" find themselves drawn to forms of music where bass guitar takes a more active or even challenging roll. I am sure many like myself either have grown tired of the common rock bass lines and expectations over the years. Or maybe I was just never able to find ways to challenge myself. McCartney is a great example of someone that brought much more to his parts that mostly go unnoticed. He did however have an important roll in the the studio and songwriting of the Beatles. Perhaps that was his balance. To be a great bassist is not be in the forefront but perhaps to be content in knowing that what you do is essential and if it is done poorly or not at all, it can't be ignored.
I'll add one of my favorites:
John Paul Jones

Though this is kinda dead lol i think it matters a great deal how you play it. Fingering a bass is not a good way to get heard, it kind of mushes the tone around...this is obviously needed in some cases. but there are many different styles of plucking to get you heard more, obviously slappin n pop, but also double thumb, the pinky slap thing Fieldy does, fliking your fingernails, this combind with sum thump and ghost notes while turningup the high end and combining all of these makes all the difference :D
im trying for a lead-bass role in my band..hope it works lol
suprised nobody mention Les claypool mark king or WOOOTTEEENNNN. Eh his solo albums r kinda bad. good basis though. lmao.

I think bass guitar in rock is coming to the fore a lot more especialy in undergrund alt indie rock circles,in some cases disregarding normal guitar alltogether! Any way what is normal? Plus i would think an experienced producer could help make the bass shine through! Bass should be respected before being embarked upon lightly!

the best bass player by far is ace freley of kiss ,no contest

Ok,going back to the original post, without making this an endless cycle of who the best player is, I think you're perhaps searching for where, as a bassist, your perspective on bass and how you approach it lies.

The question, "why i cannot hear the bass when i hear Nickelback, Hoobastank or Vertical Horizon" needs to be addressed. First off, originally I thought this is because you don't play bass, but I see you list yourself as a bass player, so nix that idea, your ear should definitely pick up on where the bass is for these artists with some practice.

The question really gets at the heart of what every bassist faces as he or she defines their style, certain styles of playing click into a more pronounced midrange and higher end, as David B. mentioned using a pick or even taking a slap approach gets it. But it largely depends on where you see your playing to be, and the band you're playing with, and the style you're going for.

I think you mentioned Nickelback, Hoobastank and Vertical Horizon because you like what they do, but you're concerned as a bassist that you won't stand out working in that style.

Every bassist will approach their instrument in their own way, and I can only give you my experience as a bassist. I'm a finger player, to me the bass is felt first, and maybe heard if necessary. If you played those three bands without the bass, it would not have the power, the feel or the groove. There's an emotional tie to this range that can't be explained in words, it's pure emotion that comes from your soul and vibrates through the bodies of the people who listen to you. It's something you can experience especially when playing live, when you're pumping air, that moves the crowd. The bass for me connects to the primal instinct to move, and it bridges the gap between rhythm and melody, and for the bands you mentioned, I think the players do that job well.

"To me the bass is felt first, and maybe heard if necessary." ...

This paragraph should be the wiki on rock bass playing. There simply is not a better way to say this. Whether or not a person GETS it is a whole nutha thing.

Hi i like rock music so much can u upload some music here Upload Rock Music

Different players have ntheir own unigue styles so can say one of the best but not the best!!!

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I have a tendency to judge bass players on performance within the context of the song instead of raw talent or ability. I can see how this may be perceived as an impairment to my judgement because it alienates the musicians who focus solely on stretching the frontier of bass playing. I applause you all but I prefer to pay attention to the juggernauts who have been able to transcend and incorporate both craft and sensibility into there music. Which is why I believe that bassist like John Paul Jones of Led Zeppelin, Roger Waters of Pink Floyd, and Noel Redding of Jimi Hendrix are amongst the absolute best. All shine for different reasons, for Jones its his lightning fast fingers and uncanny sense of both timing and rhythm, for Waters it was his tone, ingenuity, and the essential nature of his licks, and for Redding its his ability to keep up with the improvisational tirades of Hendrix, while still carving out his own interpretation of the genius's rambling beauties. Two of these three had the recording handicap of antiquated methods and underdeveloped technology. They somehow managed to not only become easily distinguishable amongst there peers then, but also went on to stand the test of time. These days we have unlocked copious amounts of sonic possibilities for the bass guitar, unfortunately, the popular focus has shifted from appreciating mind expanding, border defying music, to revel in safe, elementary tunes homogenized for mass consumption. There are some bassists out there still making it happen. Check out: Ira wolf Tuten of Yeasayer, Beck, and Juan Alderete of the Mars Volta. Lets all be glad that we now have a website like Indaba that allows people to continue to play for ourselves and for the sake of the song.

First I agree with those comments about Paul McCartney being underrated.,,Such a talented and versatile player,musician,songwriter etc..."Silly love Songs",what an awesome (funky?) groove...He's the man.
I think its a matter of taste,tradition,song requirements,production...and I think songwriting plays a major part.
I think in todays world,bass players need to be flexible and open minded...also,willing and able to stay in the pocket,locked in a groove and ready to step up and shine when called on.

the bass guitar in modern rock mostly plays its role which is to keep the low end and provide the basement / foundation for the guitar and vocalist to fly over. that his how the style evolved. sometimes you come across a bass player who knows his stuff and can stand out a little more because he has written a stylistically appropriate part that also says more than just a reiteration of the progression. its not rocks fault. if you want slick bass lines in rock, then write em bud. listen to funk and jazz and everything and desect the parts. then apply them. cheers ; )